ComingSoon Senior Editor Brandon Schreur spoke to Madison Lawlor and Orion Smith about the latest movie in the popular Conjuring franchise, The Conjuring: Last Rites, also known as The Conjuring 4. Lawlor and Smith discussed their relationship with the Conjuring franchise, how Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga helped guide their performances as young Ed and Lorraine Warren, and more.
“The Conjuring: Last Rites delivers another thrilling chapter of the iconic Conjuring cinematic universe, based on real events,” the synopsis for the movie reads. “Vera Farmiga and Patrick Wilson reunite for one last case as renowned, real-life paranormal investigators Ed and Lorraine Warren in a powerful and spine-chilling addition to the global box office-breaking franchise.”
The Conjuring: Last Rites will be released in United States theaters on September 5, 2025, from Warner Bros. Pictures.
Brandon Schreur: I’d love to ask both of you how it was that you guys got involved with this project. What’s the history of what made the two of you want to be part of The Conjuring 4, or The Conjuring: Last Rites? What led you to get cast in these roles, and how did you guys meet for the first time?
Orion Smith: I’ve always been a fan of the franchise. Always been a fan of all the Conjuring movies. Going back to the very first one, seeing that, and seeing how it’s spun out to these different Annabelles and Nuns, all these different things, was so cool to see. I think I always had a little bit of a connection — I’ve always kind of looked like Patrick Wilson. I’ve always looked at his career and been like, ‘Oh, yeah, he’s done so many great things, and these movies specifically are so great.’
Getting connected to it was really just like — you know, you get the audition, and like two weeks later, we had our callback. That was the first time we met was at that callback.
Madison Lawlor: And the callback was incredible. We were the only people there. Michael, the director, was already in England. So we were in-person with casting, but doing a Zoom audition for Michael. We filmed it from all these different angles, and it was incredible. I think he was rooting for us. The callback was three hours long. It was super intensive, but also amazing. First time ever meeting Orion, and we just dove right in. And the rest is history.
I love it. That first Conjuring movie came out 12 years ago, now, in 2013. Which makes me feel old because I remember seeing it in theaters. But it’s been 12 years since this franchise has existed and has been part of the pop culture. Were you guys fans of these movies, or do you remember seeing the first one back in 2013? Did you see it in theaters, and did you think there would ever be a day when you’re in a Conjuring movie when this was starting off?
Smith: You know, I don’t think I saw it in theaters. But I remember seeing it and being scared, first of all. Like, right away. Being like, ‘Whoa, they touched on something here that hasn’t been touched on by a lot of different movies.’ So I think pretty much from the get-go, I was intrigued and I was a fan. And as they’ve come out through the years, I’ve definitely been keeping up and staying connected with the whole thing.
Lawlor: Yeah, I was always a fan as well, and I’m a scaredy-cat, so they definitely work on me. Having to dive in deeper, I’ve become even more of a fan. It’s been a really exciting thing to be a part of.
There’s been a bit released about what we can expect from The Conjuring 4. Obviously, we’ll find out even more when the movie hits theaters next month. What can you tell me about your roles as young Ed and Lorraine Warren in this movie? Is there anything you can tell me about what we can expect to see from you guys?
Smith: I don’t think there are any specifics we can really give you. But I think our involvement definitely deepens the relationship of the couple. I think that’s my main takeaway from it — being able to see this couple that we’ve fallen in love with over the years and getting a glimpse at a different time in their lives. It really, for me, deepened my appreciation for who they are and who they are to each other.
Touching on that, I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that we love the Conjuring movies because they’re scary, they terrify us. The Annabelle doll will always be an icon, now. But another big appeal of these movies has always been Ed and Lorraine’s relationship. There’s all this evil, demonic stuff going on, but at the heart of these movies, I’ve always seen it as being about how these two people really love each other. How important was it for the two of you to get that right, and what did the process of bringing that relationship to life look like for the two of you?
Lawlor: Oh my gosh, I think it’s everything. Vera and Patrick, they’ve done such an amazing job at creating so much heart behind these horror films. There’s a big love story amid all this chaos. I think, for us, it was super important to capture they’re connection. They really just have each other’s backs in such a beautiful way, and they understand each other like nobody else can. I think that was integral in executing their story. For us, in developing that relationship, it was about developing that report. I felt so lucky to work with Orion, and I felt so supported by him; it was easy to fall into. But I think that comfort was crucial for playing them.
Smith: I totally agree. Pretty much from the get-go, in that callback, we were both on the same page about the importance of not only the scenes and everything, but our relationship as Ed and Lorraine together, and how integral that was to the entire movie.
Totally. Jumping off that, too, Vera and Patrick have been playing these roles since that first movie in 2013. They’ve known how to be Ed and Lorraine for a long time, now. How much of a guiding light were they as you approached this movie and came into the franchise? Were you often talking to them, watching them to make sure you got all the mannerisms right? Or was it more of a case where you wanted to be them, but also wanted to have your own take on the characters, so you had to have some distance there?
Smith: I think they were definitely a guiding light for me. Getting advice from Patrick about the role and just talking through, yeah, even mannerisms, voice, and who these characters are was immensely important for me. Watching all the movies, again, from the perspective of, ‘How has he done this? How has he created this character?’ was so cool for me. Then, of course, the aspect of researching them as real people is a whole other rabbit hole.
Lawlor: Yeah, absolutely. I think there was a lot of studying the work that they’ve done. The way that Vera speaks as Lorraine, her facial expressions, and her mannerisms; they inform so much of who she is. I definitely studied the performances a lot. But, also, Vera was so awesome. She’s so cool and was such an open book. She was like, ‘If you have questions, ask them.’ They were there for us. And also really empowering and super supportive of us kind of taking ownership over that portion of the story, too.
Sure. Now that you guys have come into the franchise and are caught up with it and everything, do you have a favorite Conjuring movie in the whole Conjuring universe? Or maybe one that’s underrated? I know that I love the first movie, everyone loves that first movie, but I think the second one is really underrated. I think more people should talk about that one, because I think it’s great. Do you guys have a favorite one like that?
Smith: I’m going to double up on yours. Especially being in England while we were filming, the fact that the second one is set in England felt like almost nostalgic for me. I’d go to the local pubs and be like, ‘Tell me all your ghost stories.’ I’d go and they’d tell me all these different stories and I’d be like, ‘Wow, this is so cool.’ To then revisit the second Conjuring movie, where it’s set there, was really fun for me.
Lawlor: I agree with you. I’ve become a fan of all of them for different reasons. I think the first one is so classic to me — I don’t know, it’s perfect. But they all have their own flavor. It’s so cool because they’re all exploring these different hauntings, and they’re in different environments. There’s something different to love in all of them. But I agree with the sleeper second one, more people need to talk about it.
Totally. I love all of them, but I love that one especially. This new one is obviously directed by Michael Chaves, who did the third one and some other Conjuring universe stuff like The Nun 2. You’ve also got James Wan producing and co-creating the story, and he’s obviously been involved with the franchise since the very beginning. I’d love to know what it’s like working with these two, James and Michael, and what they’re both bringing to the table, at this point, when making the fourth and potentially final Conjuring movie.
Lawlor: They’re amazing. Michael is so knowledgeable and intentional, but so supportive as a director. Working with him, I felt so free to try things, and he has such a strong vision, but is also very nurturing and encouraging. It was amazing working with him. He’s incredible. And he loves horror, he loves making movies so much, and it’s a very infectious energy that he has.
Smith: Yeah, I totally agree. Michael’s love of horror was infectious. It made it so much more enjoyable. And meeting James Wan; you know, even just him and shaking hands with Peter Safran, it’s like, ‘Wow.’ To be around such incredible minds and such creatives was so cool.
I’m sure. One last question for the two of you, The Conjuring: The Last Rites is supposed to be the last movie in the main Conjuring franchise. There’s a whole world of spin-offs out there with Annabella and The Nun. I know there’s been some talk about a potential television show at this point. I know there’s probably stuff you can and can’t say, but are you guys open to returning to this world as Ed and Lorraine if future stuff does come along?
Lawlor: I mean, I love this world so much. I just think it’s so fun to be a part of. Yeah. It’s been incredible being a part of this one, and who knows what the future holds? But it’s been amazing, and I love living in it.
Smith: I totally agree. Any connection with this franchise, these movies, and these characters is such a gift. Even just to have a small fingerprint on this movie is incredible.
Thanks to Madison Lawlor and Orion Smith for taking the time to discuss The Conjuring: Last Rites.
