[Warning: The below contains MAJOR spoilers for NCIS Season 22 Episode 4, “Sticks & Stones.”]
If only … That’s pretty much where NCIS leaves Palmer (Brian Dietzen) and Knight’s (Katrina Law) relationship in the latest episode.
Following their breakup, the two haven’t talked since she returned to D.C. at the beginning of the season—until they’re stuck in a camper together, making their way back to headquarters only to be told they couldn’t get in due to conflict with the FBI. (Long story short: The team stopped a potential WWIII by refusing to follow orders.) It’s here we learn he’s on a dating app. While they still love each other—and both say those words—it’s not enough. He says she deserves someone who will chase down future job opportunities around the world with her and leave at a moment’s notice, and that’s not him, at least not now. She says he deserves that stability he so badly needs, that she wants him to have, and she wishes she could give that to him.
Below, Dietzen and Law unpack that conversation and tease what’s ahead for the exes.
Palmer and Knight finally have this talk. And after the avoidance, I appreciate how mature the decision is, even if it is heartbreaking because they both still love each other. What were your reactions?
Katrina Law: I think our reactions were played out in the scene. That was the beauty of [it]. I think Steven Binder, who wrote this episode, did such a great job and Jimmy Whitmore, who is our director, just kind of let us go and we didn’t really get too many notes. And again, going back to how much fun it is working with Brian in general, he’s such a great scene partner and he’s so emotionally available as a human being and also as an actor that the emotions were all there and just being able to play off of one another. There wasn’t too much discussion beforehand. We just kind of went with our gut instincts on this one. I thought it led to a really beautiful place.
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Brian Dietzen: I think that what’s made this relationship special for me, and for a lot of people watching, is that in all of our scenes that we’ve done, it’s not like we get together and plan out, “Okay, now I’m going to do this, and then you do this”… It’s kind of flowed really well. Some of my favorite scenes I’ve ever done in the last 22 years have been between Jimmy and Jess because I just love the flow of it. Katrina’s a phenomenal actor who I just love spending time with.
While a decision is made between the two of them, I don’t think that there’s anything that’s said within there that slams the door shut on anything or establishes anything firmly in cement—because Steve, as Katrina was saying, is just a damn good writer and he’s also very smart about storytelling, and let’s leave some doors open on what may happen, but also what may not and see how it grows from there and how these two can continue to have a lot of great scenes together and see where their relationship grows from here because they’re going to be seeing each other every day at work. And what does that evolve into?
Something I like about this episode is we get little moments that kind of show what their relationship was like, with Palmer checking her pulse and the banter about her snoring.
Law: Yeah, that was a lot of fun. I think that Jimmy and Knight’s relationship is so special, and like you said, we did get to see a couple of beautiful moments of how they functioned as a couple. And I think one of the key things that was said during that conversation was, “I love you.” “I love you too.” Jess put her heart on her sleeve for a moment and said, “Do you want things to change?” And I think she was basically kind of asking, “Do you want to try this again?” And then with Jimmy basically being like, “I’m not the guy for you right now. I can’t give you what you want.” And then Jess having to concede on that, “I can’t give you what you need either right now.” I think there’s still—I don’t think there was a door slamming. I think it was just gently closed for the moment.
But I think the cool part is that we have several episodes where you do see Jimmy and Knight together in the same room, and there are some moments where all of a sudden you can see Knight’s interest is sparked where she’s like, “Oh, that was kind of nice. That was a little hotness there.” And so there’s definitely still chemistry and love and I think an underlying desire to want to get back together between the two of them. So I think you’re going to see that no matter where our characters go in the future.
Dietzen: I think that it kind of comes back to that saying, if you love something, let it go. And then if it’s meant to be, it’ll come back. So I think they’re putting that ideology to the test.
But Katrina, the thing is it doesn’t feel like Knight necessarily wants to go after job opportunities around the world anymore, at least not the way she wanted to in the past. And it seems like she’s maybe moving more towards that stability that she wants for Palmer, right?
Law: I think so. For the moment. That being said, I don’t think she knows what she wants right now. I think the reason why she came back was she missed her team, and Jimmy is definitely a part of that team and she found a home for the moment, but whether or not that’s her permanent home or just a stopping point because she’s tired mentally, I don’t think she can give Jimmy that answer. I think Jimmy knows that, that she may be back, but this might not be a permanent thing. I don’t think he wants to ask her if it is. And I don’t think Jess wants to ask herself if it is at the moment either.
But Brian, Palmer is on the dating app. When and why do you think he made the decision to go on that app?
Dietzen: I think in my mind, Jimmy went on this app because he fell in love and then his heart was devastated by this breakup, and there’s this thing of saying like, “Hey, wait a minute, I still have a second act to live here. Yes, my wife passed away, but I found it. Maybe I can find it again.” And he’s just trying and trying and doing whatever he can to find that again, which I think makes it that much more difficult to see him say, “I still love you, too, and know that, I can go on all these apps, I can do all this sort of stuff, but the person I love is working right upstairs in that same desk that I’m going to see her every day.” But I think that the effort is valid and the effort is real to say, “I want to have a partner. I want to have someone I can share my time with and have a companion and for myself, not just for my kid, but I want to be able to have that again because I found it and I’ve lost it.” And I think that since he’s lost it once and since Jess has lost it once, maybe they’re both kind of saying, “We want to make sure we’re both on stable footing before we try this thing again.” But that doesn’t mean, like Katrina said, that there won’t be some looks here and there. I know that a few have been played so far throughout the further episodes where Jimmy’s looking at her and just getting lost for a second. “Oh yeah, sorry, back to the case.” sort of thing. And you’re definitely going to see that no matter what happens between these two, I think they’re always going to share a deep love.
Law: I think Torres [Wilmer Valderrama] got him on the app.
Dietzen: Probably. “Bro. You got to get back out there, bro.”
Does that mean that we’re going to be hearing about Jimmy dating? That could make things even more awkward…
Law: I sure hope so. I think the most awkward scene that would ever be played has yet to come between the two of ’em. So hopefully it gets written.
Dietzen: We’ll amp it up.
CBS
Katrina, is Knight ready to do the same thing and try to get out there again or is she more now focused on herself?
Law: To be completely honest, I think Knight is just fine on her own right now. I don’t think she wants to. But at the same time, I think one of the things that gets called up in one of the episodes coming up is, are you playing it safe and are you hiding? What you hiding from? So she might go on a couple of dates, but I don’t necessarily think it’s because that’s what she wants at the moment. I think it’s just one of those, you know what, we’re going to do it. And then they’re probably going to fail miserably and she’ll be like, and this is why I didn’t want to do it. Then she’ll probably go back to being like, you know what? I’m going to be okay on my own for a second, and just stare longingly at Jimmy.
It seems like the entire team is on that app.
Dietzen: Exactly. How else do you meet people? Otherwise we’d all be dating each other and that didn’t work out apparently.
What else is coming up for your characters?
Dietzen: There are some mentions of Knight’s sister in a future episode…
Law: Yeah, some drama.
Dietzen: Her sister’s going to affect our team.
Law: She does that.
Dietzen: She kind of creates little shock waves wherever she goes, doesn’t she?
Law: Yeah, my sister, the agent of chaos, will be back and she’s going to cause some chaos.
Dietzen: Jimmy has basically got his head down. It’s funny, after this episode with the dating app, we don’t really hear about dating again out of him. I think maybe that conversation had an effect where I’m going, “What am I doing with this thing? Oh yeah, I’m trying to forget what I had before.” And so we’re not going to see that revisited in any of the stuff that we’ve filmed so far. What you see is basically him trying to reconnect with everybody else on the team, saying, “I want to go spend time with Kasie [Diona Reasonover], I want to reconnect with Torres. He’s my guy.” And he’s putting himself back into work. I think even at some of the crime scenes that Katrina and I filmed, there are times I know that the way that I’ve been playing it, it’s like, seeing her, “Jello, I’m going into work, I’m going to the body, and I want to be consumed by what saved me after I lost my wife, which was coming to my team, my family.”
The Christmas episode is the midseason finale, right? Is there a cliffhanger?
Dietzen: Yeah, that’ll be the last episode of 2024. Like our Christmas episodes, it is holiday-themed, it’s wrapped up. This is one where you can watch it and go, oh, that’s kind of the NCIS Christmas tradition is that you get to watch a show that has a beginning, middle, and end, and then you’re off to your holidays after that.
Any mistletoe hanging around?
Dietzen: [Laughs] No, not in this one. I don’t think so. You do get to see of a familiar costume of Jimmy’s come back and make, I think, a third or fourth appearance in the show.
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Are we going to see Victoria soon?
Dietzen: I believe so, yes. I’ve just been talking to Elle Draper, who plays Victoria, and I think that we’re going to be seeing her rather soon. We haven’t filmed it yet.
I love what we’ve heard about her relationship with Knight also. That’s been sweet.
Dietzen: And in the premiere, she’s sending texts to both of them on how long they’ve been broken up. It was wonderful, a cool sequence of when Knight first met her and was so awkward around this kid and Katrina played the hell out of that. It was so good. And now they’re besties. So I’m looking forward to that.
Law: Yeah, I think that was probably the most heartbreaking part of the breakup for both Knight and Palmer, was how heartbroken Victoria was and just her wanting to reach out. And how do you deal with that? Because I remember reading the script and just being like, wow, my little girl… You’d want to get back together just for that.
Dietzen: Exactly. Do it for the kids.
McGee’s (Sean Murray) looking into LaRoche (Seamus Dever). Is the rest of the team going to be getting involved soon?
Law: I think the team is going to start seeing flashes of LaRoche, the same flashes of that McGee has seen. And we’re going to start to look a little deeper than the surface. We’re used to politicians coming in and doing their thing. That’s nothing new.
Dietzen: He’s so good. We had a scene with all of us standing around an autopsy table, and he’s just fantastic. What a good actor. And I think that that’s something our show has done for a long time, going back to Trent Kort [David Dayan Fisher], where you have someone, is he an enemy? Is he a friend? Is he an ally? Is he looking out for himself? It’s an interesting character. Yeah, our whole team is going to start asking the questions that McGee asked in the premiere, and we’re going to have a lot of fun along the way.
NCIS, Mondays, 9/8c, CBS
